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deoagent

Posts: 1,894
Registered: 5/15/03

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 4, 2006 9:19 PM

Think there sould more than one fanatic metahuman muslims trying to accomplish his jihad, that will not be a common hapenning because it wwould be taken as antisemite.

Personally I don't have any preconceived ideas about muslim ppl either, but it just seems that it would be realistic in a comic book universe (as weird as that may sound).

For example someone like Osama Bin Laden in the DCU could afford to create some powerful metahuman fanatics.

sandwraith

Posts: 812
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 4, 2006 10:14 PM

Sheesh Timmy, I wasn't saying anything about how horrible it is that "Valiant American troops" are taking women as leverage. I just said that it was news to me and that there might be reasons why they want to downplay the story. I was not throwing stones at any glass house nor did I make examples of how horrendous Americans are. I never said that. If you don't mind me saying, you've taken up a very aggressive stand to whatever I say. And please do not talk to me about rape. I don't give a damn if it's perpetrated by Muslims,Jews,Catholics,Hindus,Buddhists and whatnot. If I had it my way, they'd be put through one of those tortures you attribute to the Thais who are arguably some of the most decent folk around.

And for the last time: I AM NOT THAI! I live south of the border from Thailand yes, but I am not Thai. As for the tortures they put their prisoners through: Drug smugglers, rapists, child molestors and God knows what else. Maybe they need a little roughing up rather than become feudal lords in the American Prison System where they still have a free hand to do harm. Don't compare the West's brand of "Justice" to the East. If you ask me, the East has had a better grasp of such a simple concept like Justice long before the West ever did. Or maybe you're just ticked off that some of these unfortunate souls in terrible Thai prisons are American? Please. Americans made noise even when street punk Micheal Fay got caned in Singapore. Face it man. Justice varies in different places. Some places more effective than others.

Message was edited by: sandwraith

Message was edited by: sandwraith

omac1

Posts: 353
Registered: 6/16/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 4, 2006 10:56 PM

> I wouldn't mind if there was a muslim character. I
> don't care if there's a catholic, jew, or any other
> religious or race of a character.

A fine idea in principle when you're talking about civilized countries. However, a couple of days ago the EU offices in Gaza were beseiged by a group of masked and armed Muslim extremists who, offended by European newspapers publishing Muslim cartoons, demanded an apology or they would start killing EU staffers.
A Muslim comic character might have the same effect.

[errr]

sandwraith

Posts: 812
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 3:57 AM

A Muslim cartoon depicting the Islamic Prophet as a Terrorist. Let's just say the Danish made Siddhartha Gautama look like a Kama Sutra artist?How'd the Buddhist feel?

docsavage

Posts: 712
Registered: 5/18/03

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 5:25 AM

Sandwraith, you wrote <<Let's just say the Danish made Siddhartha Gautama look like a Kama Sutra artist? How'd the Buddhist feel?>>

Check out the following link. The article uses Hindus, not Buddhists, but I think it might answer your question.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we_are_all_danes_now/

sandwraith

Posts: 812
Registered: 7/19/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 6:18 AM

Dude, Muslims don't eat pork but we don't riot, ***** or burn flags over pork in supermarkets either. This was a line, a fine line that was never meant to be tested much less crossed. We're not supposed to picture the visage of Muhammad, we, Muslims, and here is an Euro-trash jackass who thinks he/she (lest you think all us Muslims are Sexist too I suppose..)is funny. Why? Politics? A harmless joke? Please. Why did the *******/***** even draw those comics when I'm sure he/she would have at least have an idea that at this moment, Islam is not to be ****** with? Brilliant diplomacy and respect for other religions I must say. ******* brilliant. The artist should draw the next big Vertigo hit titled: Muhammad...I'm waiting for your take timmy. I'm sure you have something to say.

timmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 6:52 AM

> Sheesh Timmy, I wasn't saying anything about how
> horrible it is that "Valiant American troops" are
> taking women as leverage. I just said that it was
> news to me and that there might be reasons why they
> want to downplay the story. I was not throwing stones
> at any glass house nor did I make examples of how
> horrendous Americans are. I never said that. If you
> don't mind me saying, you've taken up a very
> aggressive stand to whatever I say. And please do not
> talk to me about rape. I don't give a damn if it's
> perpetrated by
> Muslims,Jews,Catholics,Hindus,Buddhists and whatnot.

Then explain to me why it is all but accepted in a lot of Muslim circles? I have been agreessive towards the latter part of the conversation because you seem to keep justifying horrid horrid practices by deflecting them as cultural. Human rights violations are simply that. violations. The Muslim culture on a large scale is on a regular basis a horrid violator of human rights. Marital rape isn't only accepted in Muslim culture, they lobby to keep it legal (see Malaysia and Indonesia). You see, my issue is why aren't Mulsim clerics calling for fatwah against Bin Laden? Please, I've asked this a few times, answer that.

> If I had it my way, they'd be put through one of
> those tortures you attribute to the Thais who are
> arguably some of the most decent folk around.

Wonderful folk--putting people with AIDS on the outskirts of town admonishing them as lepers, a child sex trade market larger per capita than most places in the world and again, the horrid violation of human rights in prisons (burying men up to necks to break heroin addictions, real decent. I've been there, I don't consider fathers pimping their teenage daughters on the street "decent" when society does little to change it. That not decent, thats disgusting. The tsunami was just an excuse to steal more children and the stories I've read in hundreds of newspapers has put any Abu Gharaib scandal to shame.

My point was Abu gharaib was not censored in anyway in the press. As for the singular artcile stating the other accusations, I'd like to see that substantiated.
>
> And for the last time: I AM NOT THAI! I live south of
> the border from Thailand yes, but I am not Thai. As
> for the tortures they put their prisoners through:
> Drug smugglers, rapists, child molestors and God
> knows what else. Maybe they need a little roughing up
> rather than become feudal lords in the American
> Prison System where they still have a free hand to do
> harm. Don't compare the West's brand of "Justice" to
> the East. If you ask me, the East has had a better
> grasp of such a simple concept like Justice long
> before the West ever did. Or maybe you're just ticked
> off that some of these unfortunate souls in terrible
> Thai prisons are American? Please. Americans made
> noise even when street punk Micheal Fay got caned in
> Singapore. Face it man. Justice varies in different
> places. Some places more effective than others.

If americans are dumb enough to break the law in Thailand or Singapore, they have to deal with the consequences. Regardless, if you really think the East criminal justice system doesn't violate human rights in every major fashion, this discussion is over. Human rights aren't cultrually specific and you've contniued to show your true colors.

Everyone deserves human rights, to violate them (and justify it) makes you no better than the rapists. One violation does not excuse another.
>
>
> Message was edited by: sandwraith
>
>
> Message was edited by: sandwraith

timmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 6:55 AM

> A Muslim cartoon depicting the Islamic Prophet as a
> Terrorist. Let's just say the Danish made Siddhartha
> Gautama look like a Kama Sutra artist?How'd the
> Buddhist feel?

I'm sure they wouldn't be burning interests of a country who has an independant newpaper print an editorial cartoon. Its a singualr point of view for a single newpaper, not the attitude of all Danish people. the reaction by Musilms abroad is redundant and typical knee-jerk reaction. Keep isolating yourself from the rest of the world, that works wonders.

So you should boycott an entire race of people because one person drew a cartoon, interesting.

pariah04

Posts: 683
Registered: 1/27/06

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 7:09 AM

I admire your adamance Tim.

timmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 7:11 AM

> Dude, Muslims don't eat pork but we don't riot, *****
> or burn flags over pork in supermarkets either.

Oh I've seen some violent reaction to pork being on a buffet in jakrata in a hotel once. Food thrown all over the room and five men wrecking the place because of it.

This
> was a line, a fine line that was never meant to be
> tested much less crossed. We're not supposed to
> picture the visage of Muhammad

Then don't look at it. don't impose your standards on everyone else. It was in a Danish newspaper, they didn't advetise it in the weekly Mulsim parish directory.

, we, Muslims, and here
> is an Euro-trash jackass who thinks he/she (lest you
> think all us Muslims are Sexist too I suppose..)is
> funny.

They are a jackass for pointing out the mulims support death and coersion in Mohammeds name? It's your people bastardizing your faith, that's how its being represented by your leaders and that's the cartoonists fault?

Its called a metahpor, imagery, satire. Maybe when violence in the name of Allah isn't part of the very fabric of Islamic culture, maybe cartoon like this will cease. Until such time, expect criticism, even in the form of criticizing hte prophet. Christian in America deal with people making fun of their religion in much worse ways than this, but they don't threaten to kill people over it...

Why? Politics? A harmless joke? Please. Why
> did the *******/***** even draw those comics when I'm
> sure he/she would have at least have an idea that at
> this moment, Islam is not to be ****** with?

If that is your view of Islam right now, you really are missing reality. Is that a threat, by the way? I'd say the lesson learned is that China, Russia and the US are not to be, ahem, ****** with. Its not a war being won on the side of, ahem, those who should'nt be ****** with (the world is ******* with Islam worse than ever and frankly, I'm starting to understand the war of ideologies more and more, maybe the Commies in China, the Russian and the Americans know more than they are letting on, because if you are a moderate voice of Islam, well then it possible Islam is the threat they make it out to be, or maybe its not, but I certainly don't see that by anything you write here) and Iran is about to learn that lesson hard. It simply this point of view you should have espoused early on in the conversation. I could have saved some time. When you didn't respond the Jewsih gentleman who responed positively to you earlier, than started my suspicions, this post finished it for me. Keep talking, you are showing your colors. Kill Europeans who didn't draw the cartoon simply because they are European...???.keep justffying murder my friend.

That cartoon is proof positive a Muslim character would do nothing but cause death and bloodshed. Ever pick up one of those Islamic comic books that are so anti-semitic they make hitler look sane? Nice stuff.

> Brilliant diplomacy and respect for other religions I
> must say. ******* brilliant. The artist should draw
> the next big Vertigo hit titled: Muhammad...I'm
> waiting for your take timmy. I'm sure you have
> something to say.

Should he respect your religion simply because you say so? Interesting so in Islamic cultures its ok to ignore women's rights and the right of non-believers, but everoyne else should be understanding of your faith. So make sure you respect the image of a dead man but lets violate the rights of those alive on earth today...great philosophy...

Kill Rhusdie, dead, you know dead because of words, that's what your religion has declared. Why should the Danish respect a culture that violates human rights as a cultural norm? Again, why should you impose your culture on us? Last time I checked, Denmark isn't a Mulsim nation...

teentitan87

Posts: 202
Registered: 8/12/04

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 7:21 AM

That writer's head was so far up his @$$ he didn't know which was was up. Free Speech is cool and all, but those artists definaltely crossed a line when they started writing they're predjudiced caartoons and published them in the name of freedom of speech. And muslims aren't the only ones who are radical. How about the radical christians who shoot abortion doctors. I bet we would never ever see a cartoon about jesus and abraham smoking a fat joint thinking up their respective religions like hippy yuppies. But its cool to take shots at muslims and their prophet. Muslims dont want everybody to be like us. WHatever happened to respect, what about tolerance for other religions. Those writers crossed a line.Predjudice should not be posted in a newspaper.

timmythekaye

Posts: 448
From: Baltimore
Registered: 7/25/05

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 7:26 AM

> That writer's head was so far up his @$$ he didn't
> know which was was up. Free Speech is cool and all,
> but those artists definaltely crossed a line when
> they started writing they're predjudiced caartoons
> and published them in the name of freedom of speech.
> And muslims aren't the only ones who are radical. How
> about the radical christians who shoot abortion
> doctors.

Now you compare abortion to cartoons?

You have a demented point of view. Abortion is not a calming experience for anyone involved. Its a cartoon, not a surgical procedure! Apples and oranges....

You justify one horrid act with another? I don't recall pro-lifers calling on the death of everyone not Christian, you don't see the difference? They didn't do it in the name of freedom of speech, they did it because they had an idea they were expressing, and they have that right in Denmark. Who left you as the benchmark for "the line" or of taste? Egocentricity as its finest...

I bet we would never ever see a cartoon
> about jesus and abraham smoking a fat joint thinking
> up their respective religions like hippy yuppies.

Take a look on the net. the image you paint is tame in comparison to the anti-christian cartoons i've seen in op-eds.

But
> its cool to take shots at muslims and their prophet.
> Muslims dont want everybody to be like us.

Certainly isn't the rhetoric. When a culture calls everyone who isn't muslim an "infidel" its hard to read that any other way. Because I am not muslim, I am an infidel? That's respect for my belief system? Laughable, really. Everyone has to respect the Muslim point of view but Muslims don't have to respect that cartoonists point of view?

WHatever
> happened to respect, what about tolerance for other
> religions. Those writers crossed a line.Predjudice
> should not be posted in a newspaper.

Why? Because you say so? Murder and violation of women's rights should'nt be perputrated in a religion, but mulsims let that happen.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....There is tolerance, noone in Denmark is being flogged for being Muslim...its a cartoon, you want to kill over a cartton in a paper in a countire with a population of philedelphia? Good God man....

So its ok the sentence someone to die based on blashpemy, but its not ok to draw cartoons...interesting.

Message was edited by: timmmythekaye

teentitan87

Posts: 202
Registered: 8/12/04

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 7:58 AM

Oh I've seen some violent reaction to pork being on a buffet in jakrata in a hotel once. Food thrown all over the room and five men wrecking the place because of it.

See you're doing the same thing that you condemn muslims for. You are using the actions of five men and labeling their actions as the actions of a whole religion.

Then don't look at it. don't impose your standards on everyone else. It was in a Danish newspaper, they didn't advetise it in the weekly Mulsim parish directory .

Listen this is a newspaper. If these were just handouts or even a single book no one would care there are a million of those. But what are Danish muslims supposed to think when there are predjudiced cartoons run in a big newspaper. I'm sorry but that's just not cool. It's slander in a major way.

They are a jackass for pointing out the mulims support death and coersion in Mohammeds name? It's your people bastardizing your faith, that's how its being represented by your leaders and that's the cartoonists fault?

Once again not all muslims support death and coersion in mohammeds name. You take the actions of the few and label it as the actions of the many. And it is not how the leaders label it it's how the media represents it. They show nothing positive about the muslim faith. And dont say that there isn't, because islam is about alot more than jihad and suicide bombers, in fact Islam isn't about that at all. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that it is a peaceful religion. Those "leaders" that are given so much airtime just use Islam as an excuse for their political views.

Its called a metahpor, imagery, satire. Maybe when violence in the name of Allah isn't part of the very fabric of Islamic culture, maybe cartoon like this will cease. Until such time, expect criticism, even in the form of criticizing hte prophet. Christian in America deal with people making fun of their religion in much worse ways than this, but they don't threaten to kill people over it...

WOW, So christians deal with more ignorance than muslims. In this judeo-cristian country christians are catching it the worst. How about people attacking you simply because of your faith. Not just muslims do that. Here in america and in europe muslims are beaten for walking around in clothes that are different from others. But muslims are evil right? And since when has violence in the name of ALLah been in the fabric is Islam? Do you know anything about islam? You're ignorance of a topic you speak so vehemently about astounds me...

That cartoon is proof positive a Muslim character would do nothing but cause death and bloodshed. Ever pick up one of those Islamic comic books that are so anti-semitic they make hitler look sane? Nice stuff.

How is that proof? If you have a positive muslim character, how would this cause bloodshed. Those cartoonists insulted their prophet, not come up with a muslim superhero.

Should he respect your religion simply because you say so? Interesting so in Islamic cultures its ok to ignore women's rights and the right of non-believers, but everoyne else should be understanding of your faith. So make sure you respect the image of a dead man but lets violate the rights of those alive on earth today...great philosophy...

WOW again.Just because you don't understand their religion don't say it doesn't deserve your respect. You dont have to like it but u must respect it. First of all the prophet Mohammed is held upmost in the entire religion. Without him there might not have been an Islam. And whats more, thats their way of life. They don't do those crimes against human rights for kicks and giggles, they do it because that is their way of life. It has been in their culture for the longest time. So what do you want them to do? And whats more( not saying i agree just trying to explain it) you dont see 13 year olds having premarital unprotected sex and birthing babies outside of families having to raise those children by themselves. They dont have the maury show over there, with women trying to find their babies daddies. It may seem radical to you but thats the way it works for them. And they don't have a problem wit h it, its outsiders who come in and try and cause a ruckus. That's how they've kept order for years and that's how they plan on doing for the next 500 years.

docsavage

Posts: 712
Registered: 5/18/03

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 8:00 AM

Hi again,
I posted that link because the writer is a typical example of USA, right-wing columnists. The guy has a column that appears two or three times a week in the Boston Globe (Boston is my former home town, so I still read that newspaper.)

Jacoby appears on the op-ed page of the Globe, and has a huge following. The ZGlobe dropped him once and there were
mild protests [letters and phone calls].

I consider him to be like many of the right-wing radio show hosts and writers who are currently in vogue in the USA. There is truth in what they say, but often they exaggerate one point and leave out other things. They tend to polarize people.

BTW, the Globe is owned by the New York Times and is generally very sympathetic to Palestinians and the rights of "undocumented" immigrants. The Globe and Times believe that "people" cannot be "illegal", therefore there are no "illegal immigrants"; there are only "undocumented immigrants".

teentitan87

Posts: 202
Registered: 8/12/04

Re: Muslim characters in comics(general opinions please)
Posted: Feb 5, 2006 8:21 AM

Now you compare abortion to cartoons?

You have a demented point of view. Abortion is not a calming experience for anyone involved. Its a cartoon, not a surgical procedure! Apples and oranges....

You justify one horrid act with another? I don't recall pro-lifers calling on the death of everyone not Christian, you don't see the difference? They didn't do it in the name of freedom of speech, they did it because they had an idea they were expressing, and they have that right in Denmark. Who left you as the benchmark for "the line" or of taste? Egocentricity as its finest...

No, I'm not comparing abortion to carttons, im comparing radical acts to one another. the fact of the matter is there are radicals everywhere, yet radical mulsims are the only ones pointed out.And first of all Muslims in general don't want anyone who is not muslim to die. THat's ludacris. It never says that in the koran. And yes they are doing it in the name of freedom of speech, thats their whole defense to it. And I didn't call myself the benchmark of the line or taste, I'm just saying when you upset Millions of people with your bigotry and predjudice, i think its safe to say that a line might have been crossed.

Certainly isn't the rhetoric. When a culture calls everyone who isn't muslim an "infidel" its hard to read that any other way. Because I am not muslim, I am an infidel? That's respect for my belief system? Laughable, really. Everyone has to respect the Muslim point of view but Muslims don't have to respect that cartoonists point of view?

WOW listen you have to stop making all the baseless accusations just because you think thats what they mean. In the koran it doesn't say that anyone who isn't muslim is an infidel. And why should you respect someone who has basically spit in your face. What are muslims as a whole just supposed to smile and say oh its ok he's just expressing himself.

Why? Because you say so? Murder and violation of women's rights should'nt be perputrated in a religion, but mulsims let that happen.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....There is tolerance, noone in Denmark is being flogged for being Muslim...its a cartoon, you want to kill over a cartton in a paper in a countire with a population of philedelphia? Good God man....

So its ok the sentence someone to die based on blashpemy, but its not ok to draw cartoons...interesting.

No it's not because i said so, its beacuse thats what civilized people do. they have respect for one another even if you don't understand it. And the purpose of Islam isnt to murder and rape women. It has nothing to do with that. And I didn't say that those radical muslims were right to kill. I'm against the cartoons man.
ANd in those countries that is their way of life. That's what they have been doing for thousands of years. Its how they feel they like to keep order. For someone who is comstantly condemning muslims for not respecting rights u sure dont respect theirs no matter how crazy it seems to you.

I bet we would never ever see a cartoon
> about jesus and abraham smoking a fat joint thinking
> up their respective religions like hippy yuppies.

Take a look on the net. the image you paint is tame in comparison to the anti-christian cartoons i've seen in op-eds.

I'm not talking about cartoons on stupid web sites no one cares about those. I'm talking about predjudice on a wide scale. In a widely published newspaper. I would like to see my tame cartoon published in the new york times. We would never see it in a million years.


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